Comments on: Friday scraps

By: scilf

scilf — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 02:12:21 +0000

I used the built in ditherer in Cakewalk pro audio 9.3 last week, (to change down from 24 to 16) and found, with a fairly hot mix, that there were quite a few bits of click/pop sort of artifacts. I assume the algorithm doesn’t like hot mixes or that there was conflict with a plug.
I’ve yet to try a plug in ditherer. Are there any recommendations?

By: Tim Walters

Tim Walters — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 06:03:14 +0000

Thanks for underststanding! I’m enjoying the site quite a bit, by the way, and not finding anything else to quibble about…

I should add that I agree with your main point, that it’s better to sound good than to be “right.”

By: des

des — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 03:00:32 +0000

> When you buy a new piece of gear, do you open it up and start pulling out capacitors as long as you don’t hear any difference?

Does this count? http://www.hometracked.com/2007/08/17/ribbon-mic-mod-part-1-apex-205/

> but you still shouldn’t do something you know is broken

Ya, I completely agree. And I’m glad you pointed out my misstatement. Like I said, I was trying to shoe-horn a point into the wrong context.

> but… I am a pedant. :)

heh, it comes with the territory, I think. So much in sound engineering is about the details!

By: Tim Walters

Tim Walters — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:26:13 +0000

That cuts both ways, of course. :-)

When you buy a new piece of gear, do you open it up and start pulling out capacitors as long as you don’t hear any difference?

Because that’s what not dithering is like. A bit-reducer that doesn’t dither is broken, pure and simple. The brokenness may not be audible (to a specific person on a specific monitoring system at a specific time…), but you still shouldn’t do something you know is broken*, especially bearing in mind that you don’t know what use might be made of that audio in the future–it might be something that will expose the problem.

Sorry to be such a pedant, but… I am a pedant. :)

*Except as a deliberate effect, of course.

By: des

des — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 12:19:40 +0000

Good point Tim.

I harp on a few things around here, one of them being the importance of using your ears to tweak a mix, rather than relying on formulas and general rules. I was probably reaching a little trying to work it in up there. (Though I’d say my advice stands, even if I used it out of context.)

> because it’s subtle, you might miss the fact that you’re doing damage by not dithering.

That cuts both ways, of course. :-)

By: Tim Walters

Tim Walters — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 00:28:06 +0000

Responsible mixing engineers don’t apply processing to a mix if they themselves don’t hear the effect of the processing.

But dither isn’t processing, it’s part of the definition of correct bit-rate reduction. *Lack* of dither is processing–you’re adding signal-correlated distortion by deviating from standard practice.

Not dithering is like playing back a Dolby-encoded tape without Dolby decoding because you want to avoid processing. You’re doing the reverse of what you mean to do.

Does it matter? I’ve been able to hear the difference in some circumstances–the undithered signal lost stereo image. It’s subtle, but precisely because it’s subtle, you might miss the fact that you’re doing damage by not dithering.

By: Jean-François Charles

Jean-François Charles — Sun, 27 Jan 2008 04:37:52 +0000

“If you can’t hear a difference, don’t make the change.”
Key point. I have heard a lot of talking on musical issues, that forget about listening. To talk about the quality of algorithms (dithering, compression, etc.) is easy. To illustrate the talking by having people actually listen and hear the differences may not be that easy… and is done far less than talking.